Nicola Sturgeon tells Jon Kay ‘please listen to me’ in clash
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The First Minister of Scotland appeared on Wednesday’s BBC Breakfast to discuss the question of Scottish independence after she called for a second vote next October. She argued the Scots had been forced into Brexit “against their will” on top of a government they didn’t vote for. As BBC host Jon Kay questioned her plans, Sturgeon exploded and accused him of not having read what she’d stated as she demanded: “Please listen to me.”
Sturgeon told the Scottish parliament she wants to hold a second independence referendum on October 19 next year.
Explaining this to BBC viewers, she said: “The people of Scotland must have the ability to express their views on independence, otherwise we have a situation where the UK is not the democratic, voluntary union of nations we’ve always been told it is.
“Instead it becomes a construct in which Scottish democracy becomes a prisoner of a UK prime minister.
“Whatever you think on independence, that cannot be right.
“And actually what we’re now seeing in Scotland is not just an independence movement, it’s a democracy movement.
“No, I know,” Kay responded, adding: “But I know you’re talking about using the General Election and-“
“See, no, no, no, no!” Sturgeon cut in angrily. “No, no, can you please listen to me?
“Because if you’d read what I said yesterday you would know the answer to that question.”
She went on: “What we are proposing is just as it was in 2014 – a consultative advisory referendum.
“That’s what referendums are in the UK. This was true in 2014 as well.
“The UK parliament and the Scottish parliament would have to pass legislation to give effect to that.
“So what we are seeking is to establish whether the Scottish parliament can lawfully hold even an advisory referendum.”
Sturgeon argued: “I am not going to move forward with a referendum that is unlawful.
“What I said yesterday also, if the Supreme Court, and I hope this doesn’t happen and it wouldn’t be the fault of the court, it would be a reflection of the legislation, says that there is no lawful route for the Scottish parliament to do that and if the UK government continues to block the referendum then yes, the General Election, as far as I’m concerned becomes the defacto referendum.
“Because people can not be blocked from having their say on this issue.”
“Okay, my question was very specific,” Kay hit back. “So you wouldn’t consider having any other kind of separate vote?
“We all know the General Elections are very different from referendums, aren’t they? People are voting on all kinds of issues.”
Sturgeon repeated a referendum “has to be lawful”. She added; “I want a lawful referendum but if that is blocked at every turn, the only option for my party is to say to people in the election, ‘Use this as the defacto referendum to express your views on independence.'”
BBC Breakfast airs daily from 6am on BBC One.
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